Getting started in Startups isn’t always black and white. It takes grit to find your way through the grey. Today’s guest, Sam Glovers, knows exactly what it takes to carve out your place in the Startup world and shares with us his Startup origin story, plus tips for those aspiring to join this exciting ecosystem.
Sam Glover is one of Startup High Country’s founding members. This episode represents our final “meet the team” episode. After this, you’ll be hearing from entrepreneurs all over Western North Carolina, sharing the stories of how they built the businesses and movements here in the High Country.
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Note - Transcripts are created using AI technology and may not read 100% accurately. We apologize for any misspellings or mistakes.
1 (3s):
Sitting down with a farmer who is the ultimate entrepreneur, in my opinion, because they're driven so deeply by passion to to be in the dirt and grow things and serve their community and make ends meet. That passion was just electric.
2 (33s):
Welcome to Made in the High Country, a podcast that takes you behind the scenes of Western North Carolina's entrepreneurial ecosystem and the people within it. I'm Samantha Wright, community director at Startup High Country, where we work to build a stronger entrepreneurial community for all of Western North Carolina. Whether you are a small business owner, aspiring entrepreneur, new high tech startup, or anything in between, from Wilkesboro to Banner, Elk, Lenoir, to Jefferson, Boone, and beyond. If you call the high country home, or maybe you're just thinking of moving to the mountains, we are your hub for all things business in the high country.
2 (1m 14s):
Today on our show, you'll get to know one of the founding members here at Startup High Country, Chris Grasinger. Chris's rap sheet of entrepreneurial involvement is impressively long, especially for someone who's only 35 years old. He is part owner of the local climbing Gym Center 45, which is the much beloved community center of the robust bouldering and climbing community that exists here in the high country. He is also the high country regional manager for an organization called Mountain Biz Works, a CDFI, Lending Institution that's given out more than 74 million in loans to local entrepreneurs.
2 (1m 55s):
Mountain Biz Works has been an extremely influential catalyst for entrepreneurship in Asheville since 1989, and it's largely thanks to Chris Grayer that they now serve the greater high country region. Chris has coached and consulted with hundreds of local business owners to help them tackle their finances and other challenges. And he's also partly responsible for the creation of the High Country Impact Fund, a locally based investment fund that provides funding and support to seed early stage high growth companies in the high country. Today, you'll learn all about his surprisingly deviant youth experiences. Chris's advice on lending options for entrepreneurs, and the intersection between privilege, abundance, and caution when it comes to starting or growing your business.
2 (2m 45s):
I start my conversation out with Chris on the topic of his less than straightened narrow phase during his youth growing up, just outside of Boone in blowing rock, North Carolina.
1 (2m 56s):
I definitely found ways to get in trouble and have a little bit of juvenile history half the days in Boone when it's raining because we're in a rainforest and yeah, you're stuck inside. What are we gonna do? Oh, let's, let's get into this. And you know, it also, we felt like accented our ability to freestyle. Me and my buddies were all into hip hop. So infusing substances into freestyle session we, we thought was making us better. In retrospect, probably not.
2 (3m 28s):
Did your group have a name?
1 (3m 30s):
No. No, but my rapper name was Simply Christmas.
2 (3m 34s):
Simply Christmas. I love it. Oh my gosh. I've known you a while, C, not to say I, I didn't know about this phase of your youth. Yeah, it makes total sense. And I love that that was like a part of your, your expression growing up. Do you mind, I mean we have to, right? We have to play some samples here of your free styling days, if you have any around. Can you send those? Can we play those here?
1 (3m 57s):
Okay, yeah, maybe we can edit that in and see if I can pull something up. Hesitation.
3 (4m 2s):
I was scared to enter it because I'd been there before. I had failed at the same man's door, but I knocked regardless and came in. I listened to what he had to say again, this time it was new
1 (4m 14s):
Because I was trying, you know, that was one thing that kind of was fun for us. And like I said, we would do a lot of part core, so we would get into those things maybe in places we shouldn't. And you know, you just wanna feel like part of a community. I was also a wrestler, but I will say growing up in Boone, there's so many things to do. It's just all about kind of finding a mentor or somebody close to you to introduce you to hiking, haunting for mushrooms, trail running, you know, it's like there's endless recreation opportunity here and I, I just didn't have a mentor.
2 (4m 56s):
Yeah, I hear you. Like a good mentor is everything when it comes to getting kids involved with really positive things. Cause there's so much to do around here in the mountains, but it does usually take someone, usually an adult willing to be that guide, right? And without that, yeah, I could see how a kid could really find themselves maybe not making the best choices, getting into some trouble. Yeah. Thank you for sharing all that. So I'm curious, Chris, when did you feel like that entrepreneurial spark could have been noticed as a kid? Were you kind of entrepreneurial minded as a kid at all in your childhood?
1 (5m 34s):
I mean, I could go back to middle school basically. It was all selfish entrepreneurial stuff, but I would just kind of leverage opportunities. This is bad, and I'm sorry for creating an x-rated bit of content here, but in sixth grade, we happened upon one of my friend's dad's Playboys. And I realized that in sixth grade at middle school, every boy in my grade wanted a playboy. So I would sell them for 20 bucks to pop and we'd go in the bathroom, they'd slide the money under the stall, I'd slide the playboy to them.
2 (6m 15s):
It's quite the profit margin there. What? 20 bucks? Oh yeah. From a zero zero input. Yes.
1 (6m 21s):
In 98.
2 (6m 22s):
98. Now this obviously wouldn't really work today with every kid having access to that, to the internet. That's
1 (6m 29s):
So true. That's so true. Yeah.
2 (6m 31s):
I don't that's It's
1 (6m 33s):
Hilarious. It's
2 (6m 33s):
Hilarious and, and scary. And I don't know, maybe a good thing in some ways now people, now these kids don't have to lose 20 bucks in the bathroom stall with the Chris racing, you're trying to sell them $20 pornos, you know?
1 (6m 47s):
Oh my gosh. Yeah. And, and the other one that I look back on it and I was like, Hmm, that might have been an early entrepreneurial maneuver, was I, I used to get migraines, and I actually still do. It was always told to the nurse that I got migraines and they were basically debilitating. Like, I, like can't see, I can't hardly talk. I'd feel sick back then as a kid I used to actually throw up, that was like the climactic point, and then I would slowly just paid out of it many times in boarding school. Instead, I had a migraine where really I just didn't wanna go to class and I wanted to go get some sleep, you know?
1 (7m 27s):
And nobody ever questioned it. So I kind of leveraged this thing to get what I wanted.
2 (7m 33s):
So yeah, what you've sort of coined it selfish entrepreneurism, really, just seeing how much you could get out of something, but
1 (7m 41s):
Yeah. Yeah. And you know that second one, there's a bit of dishonesty in it, but those days when I was sleeping and everybody else had had to do class, I, I never regretted it one time.
2 (7m 55s):
Now, overall, Chris's childhood was a very happy one, but his parents were getting concerned about some of the more worrying behaviors that were starting to arise in their young teenager. So they decided to place Chris in a very regimented all boys boarding school for his junior and senior year of high school.
1 (8m 15s):
Very, very structured days, but great people. And that ended up being a really special thing for me that got me a little more on the right track and focused on the right things and prepared me and allowed me to, to get into college.
2 (8m 31s):
And for college, you attended the University of North Carolina in Wilmington, where I see you graduated with a degree in accounting. I'm curious why accounting?
1 (8m 41s):
So really it was just my dad's recommendation and me not having the fortitude to choose my own lane. And I think, like looking back at it, I probably would've focused on art, but I, I just didn't, once again have the fortitude or the confidence to kind of put my foot down and say, that's exactly what I wanna do.
2 (9m 3s):
After college, Chris followed a girlfriend down to Jacksonville, Florida and not really knowing what he wanted to do himself, besides knowing that he did not want to work as a CPA or a traditional accountant. He found himself selling alarm systems door to door.
1 (9m 19s):
That lasted a short period of time. But I did sell an alarm system to a secret service agent. That's real. Wow, that's real. And
2 (9m 28s):
That's like a badge of
1 (9m 29s):
Honor. It was great. It was great. And then I, I learned shortly that that was not where I needed to be.
2 (9m 37s):
And so from there he worked at a day's end, moved on to another hospitality job and was enjoying painting on the side, selling his artwork at the local art crawl scene there. You could probably summarize this time in Chris's life as waffling, because he really wasn't sure what he wanted to do or where to find his place in the way of a career. But eventually he did find something he was authentically interested in, and that was the newly offered MBA program with an emphasis in sustainable business offered back in his hometown at Appalachian State University. He applied, got in and it was there that he truly started engaging with school.
2 (10m 17s):
And on one fateful day, he came across a practicum opportunity with an organization called the Seeds of Change internship that was focused on creating an entrepreneurial hub for local food systems in the high country.
1 (10m 30s):
I, I specifically remember seeing it online or in some list they gave us when we were in the program. And I just felt this rush of energy and I like be lined to the NBA director's office and sat down and put it on his table. I said, I really, really like to do this. And that was Joseph Kazi, a at that time, was direct in MBA program and he made it happen.
2 (11m 2s):
What were some of those biggest lessons you remember taking away from that real world experience?
1 (11m 9s):
Yeah, I mean, sitting down with a farmer who is the ultimate entrepreneur, in my opinion, from an entrepreneurial profile perspective, because they're driven so deeply by passion that they decide they want to be in an industry which for Decades has had very low margins than oppor real opportunity for, for entrepreneurs. And by that I mean farmers haven't had the ability to really make money since food has been globalized.
1 (11m 52s):
And that's been decades. And despite that, I was getting to sit down with people that were driven and by a passion to, to be in the dirt and grow things and serve their community and make ends meet, you know, some of them with children. And it was, that passion was just electric, you know? And it, it woke up every part of my brain that had been asleep and not working for class. And I really began to understand what income expense, cash flow, debt, capital infusions, funding.
1 (12m 43s):
I, I began to understand how all those things that were once business concepts and textbooks actually fueled somebody's life and their passion and their family and their community and just all the things started clicking. And without that, I, I don't know if I would've found a connection with something, some type of work that I really enjoy.
2 (13m 10s):
And that work that Chris is doing, the work that he actually enjoys is working as the regional manager for an organization called Mountain Biz Works, which is all about connecting local entrepreneurs to the educational and mainly financial resources that they need to start or grow their businesses.
1 (13m 29s):
The way that this organization is identified by the federal government is to community development, financial institution, cdfi, and they're all over the country and they serve an important role of lending and providing funding, specifically what we do as loans, just a typical term loan to entrepreneurs that are starting or growing their business. And since 2008, it has been specifically very difficult for a Wells Fargo or a truest or a Bank of America to work with a young business.
1 (14m 13s):
And I mean a business that's under two or three years old And they haven't been able to even touch startups, but where are all of our community businesses? Where are all our national businesses gonna come from? And if they can never have their genesis moment, and a lot of times to start something, you do need some outside funding. So that's where CDFIs play a very important role. And during Covid we got even more attention because we're the ones that know how to speak to and understand the business model of a, a small business in our community. Like a lot of the big lenders and banks have actually lost the ability to, to understand the mechanics of a business that size or at its beginnings.
2 (15m 0s):
Yeah, it's so interesting. I don't know if I'm the only one that thinks this way, but I feel like I've definitely been influenced culturally with that image of, you know, starting a business and going into a, a bank and sitting down with a banker and saying, you know, Hey, here's who I am. Here's my business idea. Here's something our community needs, you know, let's make it happen. And, and the banker says, Oh, you know, great idea. And here, here's a check, Hand it over you, you know, good luck. Go start a business. And it's definitely not the way it works. Yeah. And especially not nowadays, things have just changed so much. So can you dumb it down for us a little bit more and, and paint a picture of what are those major differences of someone, you know, walking into a major bank, asking for a business loan versus working with someone like Mountain Biz Works, A C D F I?
1 (15m 52s):
Yeah. Well, to use the example of a business that I started, we worked with the C D F I in order to get the funding we needed to start, and it's a climbing gym, a recreation center, and a, a larger bank. When we go in and when we would ask, you know, this is a business we're considering starting, what do you need from us? It was almost hard just to get an answer of what they needed from us, let alone for them to review our plan and give us an idea of what alone with them might look like.
1 (16m 32s):
And I don't blame them. A lot of these commercial lenders at traditional banks are not incentivized whatsoever to, to work with early businesses because the risk portfolio to them is so high and none of their commission structures or what their, their goals are on a quarterly basis are lined up with working with somebody at that stage. So I can't blame 'em. They're just doing their job.
2 (16m 58s):
Yeah. Well, and not to mention too, these are like national banks that really, they don't, that that factor of how much benefit would this business bring to the community isn't really a factor that they consider necessarily because they, they don't have a focus in that local economy.
1 (17m 15s):
You're exactly right. You're exactly right. And that brings up another point for me in that, oftentimes in these commercial banks, you're going in and you're speaking to somebody at that branch providing them the information they need for underwriting and reviewing it as a possible loan, but then they're sending that out to another office that isn't even in the high country to underwriters that don't know you will never know you and probably never talk to you. So it's not a relationship foundation. Their foundation is meeting their, their goals and providing what the bank offers on the front end.
1 (17m 57s):
It makes the most money on. And once again, there's no blame there, you know, But the relationship piece is majorly missing. And in order to lend to an early stage entrepreneur, you have to build a relationship. You have to get to know their character, you have to get to know their history and what drives them. Because the key ingredient other than cash flow and in a potentially profitable business model, is the passion piece. And knowing what is inside them that's fueling this pursuit of doing something that's very difficult, which is starting and or growing a business that's really, really hard and without passion, it's going to fail.
1 (18m 46s):
So to, to do the type of lending we do, we have to build relationships, which I think a lot of banks are unfortunately not in a working environment that allows for that.
2 (18m 58s):
Chris, I wanted to ask, as someone who yourself has grown a business really from scratch without a lot of, of your own financing to put into it, and you work with so many businesses helping connect them to financing, what, what advice would you give to an aspiring entrepreneur or struggling entrepreneur that is, is really struggling in that capital department? You know, just having enough funds to achieve their vision.
1 (19m 25s):
One of my mentors, I remember while I was in my mba, he actually spoke to one of my classes and said, If you have a good idea and a good business that you want to start or grow, the money is there. It's out there, it's, it's waiting for you. And that is so true, there's a ton of money out there for investment. It just is about picking the right format and alone from mountain biz work could be a great fit. A investor, a private investor, putting funding into your business might be a better fit.
1 (20m 10s):
Crowdfunding investment, crowdfund funding could be a better fit from your savings, you know, and money that, that you've placed aside or family money that might be the right path to go down for your capital. It's always out there. It's just getting to the point where the business model makes enough sense for the right format of money to come in. So when you're going out there and you're asking for money, whether it's from an investor, from a bank, be sure you're taking note of what their concerns are because as soon as you address those and know how to answer that question on how you have a solution for that, that is still gonna result in a positive cash flowing business.
1 (20m 60s):
The funding is there and, and there there's so much. So it's really about just fine tuning what you're doing and also being very careful about which type of money you decide to, to bring in if it's gonna be external money and not just your savings.
2 (21m 16s):
Do you feel like that really comes down to having an abundance mindset? I mean that term seems so cheesy to me when I say it out loud, but you know, having an abundance mindset, understanding that there, there really truly is an abundance of opportunity and money out there for anyone to be able to take hold of and utilize. Do you feel like there's a lot of people, especially in the rural areas of the mountains here too, that really just have no idea about that abundance that exists?
1 (21m 48s):
Yes, yes. I think Samantha, that's really in my head a lot is, is that abundance mindset. And it's also a little bit of defend yourself, you know, and, and be strategic about the type of money you're, you're bringing in because the wrong type of investor or a predatorial lander, right? That yeah, we can give you the money, it's gonna be a 20% interest rate after the first six months, but we got that for you.
1 (22m 28s):
Those are the situations you really gotta keep an eye out for and lean on your mentors and your peers to, to find out whether you want to take that on or not. And so it's abundance, but it's also caution, you know, it's also being really smart to understand what the profile behind that money coming is coming in is and how it's gonna affect future cash flow too. And make sure that you have a market, you know, like so many people wanna start the business that they saw in Durham, you know, this is so cool, you can go pour your own beers and like a watch keeps up with how much you've, you've bought and then you check out.
1 (23m 16s):
It's like a whole self-service.
2 (23m 18s):
Oh yeah. One of those like self-serve beer places.
1 (23m 20s):
Yeah. Yeah. And that's just an example, you know, I hear folks say that and I'm like, But is it gonna work in your community and what research and dialogue have you had with your community to understand that that is actually gonna work? And there's enough people that are gonna use that throughout the year. And if that answer, if the response to that is short, I know that they don't understand their market and they don't understand if they have a market yet. And taking money on when you don't have an understanding of your market and how what you're gonna be offering is gonna serve them and why they're gonna continue to buy from you.
1 (23m 60s):
You're setting yourself up for slavery cuz you're gonna be a slave to that money you brought in to try to pay it back after you've learned that you didn't understand your market well enough. And that's a horrible place to be. I see a lot of people in that place and it's, it's sad, but it's the reality of things and that's because the money's out there. You can find that money, you can start that business, but you wanna make sure that you're fully connected and calibrated to, to make sure that business is going to be serving X community on a sustainable basis and you're gonna be passionate about it every day.
2 (24m 38s):
Hmm. So you're really kind of giving two pieces of advice there. One is that there is such thing as as bad money that you don't wanna be taking into your business money that will ultimately kind of drain you with, you know, too much interest or just not from the right source. Yeah. And then also, you know, know that your business is going to work is, is a solving a problem or filling in a need in your specific community before you invest that money into starting it?
1 (25m 9s):
That's right. That's exactly right. Abundance and caution.
2 (25m 13s):
Yeah. You have to have both. And it's interesting, you were, we were talking earlier and you, you're one that's very quick to call out their own privilege, right? You grew up as a mid upper class white male. And I find that culturally there's a lot of people who grow up with privilege or, you know, easy access to money and grow up in the certain cultural expectation of success, have really no problem with the abundance side, but maybe sometimes a little issue with the caution. And then on the other side, a lot of people who grow up without those same privileges can often not recognize that abundance and be a little overly cautious.
2 (25m 57s):
Right. So
1 (25m 58s):
Yeah, I, I I really enjoy my work at Mountain Works because that is right in the center of what we do and you know, over 50% of our portfolio is female owned, our loan clients, and we're working hard to craft something innovative in the bipo access to capital space. And we have some amazing teammates that are from Bipo communities.
2 (26m 35s):
If you're unfamiliar, BIPO stands for black and indigenous people of color.
1 (26m 39s):
I, I'm just, I feel so lucky every day to be able to be exposed to that and go through the difficulty and pain of that because a lot of it has to do with realizing the current framework and what it feels like to be in that seat, which, you know, until I had an amazing wife, which I still don't understand how I deserve it, but I, I've got just a lovely lady that has showed me the challenges for women through the years and the things that she faces. You know, you gotta get intimate with somebody to understand whether perspective looks like.
1 (27m 22s):
And she's been a great teacher to me for that. And then, you know, some of my teammates at Biz works through some discoveries that we've gone through together to create these innovative financial products. They've, they've taught me so much and it's, it's gotta be the future. I mean to speak to Boom, we have this Latino community that is so strong, so creative, and I just feel like, you know, from an entrepreneurial support perspective and entrepreneurial ecosystem, we've barely had dialogue with that Latino community and I just really hope that that can continue to develop in that communication.
1 (28m 16s):
Is there and growth together, is there collaboration? I think that it's happening throughout our country, throughout western North Carolina and, you know, I have to recognize the blessings that I've had and it's another thing where I don't know how I deserve it or how I ended up being in America, Born in America, which is just, you know, you talk to entrepreneurs from Europe and South America and some of the barriers to becoming a business owner there are way beyond what what we can imagine.
1 (28m 58s):
So just being in this country and then being, you know, from an essentially, you know, mid upper class family, you know, of, of two folks, my dad being an entrepreneur and my mom being a medical doctor. I don't know why I deserve that, but I try to start each conversation and thought with gratitude for that. And each day because through that I've had the opportunity to get a good education. I've had incredible mentors that all I need to do is just give 'em a call.
1 (29m 39s):
You know? So we gotta continue to fan that out. And evening the playing field is not throwing money at something. That's something I've learned in the past years of trying to work specifically with Bipo communities, just to speak directly to that. So many people have just thrown a bunch of money at these communities and marketed the shit outta that said, Look what we did. And there's no follow up, there's no follow through, there's no real conversation. And that's what we're trying to dig into now because just throwing money at something, it's, it's a flash in a pan.
1 (30m 25s):
You have to really bring all the resources, which is so much more than, than money to an entrepreneurial ecosystem in order for it to actually begin to build with true strength. And, you know, I see us doing that in a rural community. You know, there's poverty, sadness, food insecurity, fluent throughout Toga County and the work that you guys are doing with startup high country and Samantha, you know, your, your passion that you've poured in, I see the possibilities of that alleviating some of those things for our rural community. So these are the things that get me pumped up and recognizing that I come from a very gifted, blessed background and the sense of resources and assets is a really important starting place to this kind of work.
2 (31m 20s):
I think a lot of us that live in the high country and do this kind of work, that work in the, what we call the, the entrepreneurial ecosystem here, so much of that passion is fueled by just an utter love for this area and, and a love for its people and wanting to be good stewards of that, being responsible for taking care of everyone and trying to lift up the entire population, especially during this time of growth, right? We're seeing so, so much movement, so much migration, people moving to the mountains, recognizing that, wow, this is a beautiful place to live. You know, we feel all of us here at the startup high country team feel an enormous amount of responsibility for trying to point that growth in a responsible direction for everybody who lives here.
2 (32m 12s):
Not just the new people, not just the rich people, not just the middle class people or the people that happen to get to work at the hospital or one of the, you know, three big companies that are here. But how can we lift up everyone and, and try to spread the word about these opportunities, Kind of again, back to that abundance. How do you get that message out there to all the parts of the communities that you know, hey, we're, we're here to support and we wanna help. And not just like what you just said, not just with money, but with mentorship, with education, with just a, a cultural framework of support. And that's so important.
1 (32m 52s):
Yes ma'am. Reach out to us, reach out to Samantha, reach out to startup High country. There is a whole host, there's a giant ecosystem. We're super, super gifted in Western North Carolina with an unreal entrepreneurial support network. Just reach out and that will link you to the next step that will link you to the next step until you understand your cash flow, you understand your opportunity and your market and you understand the different types of capital you have available. And from there, you choose the path you wanna take, but just tap into your network, most importantly.
2 (33m 29s):
Yeah, you don't have to do it alone. Don't even try. It's like a lot of us, we can get kind of bullheaded like, I'm so guilty of this. I'm like, No, I have all the answers. I see, I see the big picture, I see the vision, I know what I'm doing. I'm just gonna go full steam ahead. I don't need anybody else. But it's often the exact opposite is true.
1 (33m 51s):
The, the dark side of being an entrepreneur definitely has that bullheadedness and kind of manic behavior of just digging in until you find an answer. But tell you what, talking to Samantha, you'll get linked up with all the goodies.
2 (34m 7s):
Awesome. Chris, before you go, I always like to end with, share with us what's the most high country thing that you've done lately?
1 (34m 15s):
Well, I do hunt mushrooms, so pickins, some nice smooth sh trails. That was probably the most high country thing I've done lately. And also getting outside and hiking through the woods with my 11 week old that feels pretty high country. You know, being able to walk through the woods to a friend's house down in meander chare. Now everybody gets to that. And super thankful.
2 (34m 52s):
Thank you so much for tuning into today's show. I highly, highly recommend you Check out Mountain biz works.org. That's Mountain b i z works.org to learn more about their lending programs as well as their amazing cohort style learning opportunities, coaching and hands on technical assistance, a lot of which is free or discounted thanks to grant funding. It's very, very cool stuff. That's Mountain Biz works.org. This episode was produced and edited by me. Samantha Wright, community director at Startup High Country. Learn more about our events, workshops, and ways to get involved with Startup High country@startuphc.com.
2 (35m 35s):
A special thank you to Matt Wason for the creation of some of our music startup High Country is supported by NC idea, a private foundation that supports entrepreneurship in North Carolina through grants and innovative programs. Thank you to the Watauga EDC for their support and for helping build the entrepreneurial landscape of Western North Carolina. I'm Samantha Wright and you've been listening to Made in the High Country.